“I want to be used by God!” If you are a believer, you have probably made this statement. While the motive and intent is good, it often leads to faulty theology. In this conversation, Gina and Zach Neese explore the dangers of falling into a works based understanding of our relationship with Jesus.
Click below to listen starting at 22:29 to follow along.
God Does Not Want to Use You, He wants to Know you
Gina:
Yes! That’s so good! There was something that you said actually early in the book. So I’m going to kind of pull us back from that place. I think we can park that and let people maybe pause, spend a little time with Jesus and process.
In the very beginning of your book, you talk about who we are, identity, role, purpose, those kinds of things. And you ask a question, you say, “Do you want to be used by God?” And then your response to that question. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I loved that. And I think 90% of believers in the Western evangelical church would say, “I want to be used by the Lord.” I just love that you turned that on its ear. So can you just talk through that just briefly?
Zach:
Yeah, sure. That was a challenge to me because I was the guy that was walking around, praying, “God, I want to be your sword. Use me to snicker-snack the enemy. I want to be your favorite hammer. Anytime you need to build something, I want you to pull me out and use me to do that thing.” And The Holy Spirit just confronted me one time. He said, “I don’t want to use you. I want to know you.”
Jesus didn’t die on the cross so that His Father could come use me. Jesus died on the cross because I have a Father who’s always wanting to know me. He wants intimacy with me.
And here’s our humanity, we think we’re praying a good thing, and I don’t have any judgment. If somebody wants to pray something like that, I know your heart, you want to be about your Father’s business, which is amazing. I want to be about my father’s business too, but in praying for that we begin to identify ourselves, not as children who are precious to God, but as tools that are utilitarian in our purpose.
When a tool is not useful, you put it aside for another tool. Tools are disposable. If the tool doesn’t function the way it’s supposed to function for the job it is created for, you get a new tool. God will never use you that way. Things that are useful are also disposable. God is not going to dispose of you. He wants to know you. In fact, God used Pharaoh, but He knew Moses. God would use His enemies, He’ll use donkeys, He’ll use natural disasters, but He wants to walk with His kids.
Gina:
I kind of want to do another whole podcast with you about church leadership and on what you just said.
Zach:
I would love to talk about that. This is the sin of church leadership.
Gina:
Yeah, that, people use people, but God doesn’t use people.
Zach:
That’s right. And I’ve done it. And the thing is that God will give us a vision. And we think that God brings us people to serve the vision. God will never bring you people to serve a vision. God will give you a vision to serve people. I don’t say that so we can judge our leaders. I say that as a leader so that we can judge ourselves.
Gina:
Yes. None of this is an accusation. This is, “If My people are called by My name will humble themselves.” It has to start with me, right? It has to start with me being willing to say, like the end of Psalm 139, “Search me, O God know my heart, try me and see if there’s any wicked way in me.” And one of the translations of that word, “wicked” is “idol”. Oh, because we can sit here and we can define “wicked” as something really dark.
We think, “Oh, I’m not wicked. I don’t do that. I don’t think about those things or whatever.” But when you translate it to idol, then suddenly there’s something that is in that. It’s a high thing that I’ve set above the knowledge of God. So I can’t take those thoughts captive now because I’ve got a stronghold that I’ve come into agreement with, right? It’s crazy.
To Know and Be Known
Zach:
Well, so this is Paul who said this, I think it was the Corinthians, he said, “I’m determined to know nothing, but Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. I want to know Him in the power of His resurrection, the fellowship of His suffering” somehow became like Him. This is Paul’s pursuit, to be known and to know, and this is intimacy – to know Him and to be known.
We get all these other romantic notions and culture is tried to define it, but if you just break it down to what it is, it is to know and to be known. That’s the desire of every heart is to know, and to be known. And in the absence of being known, we’ll settle for being noticed; which is what is going on in our culture right now. You have a whole culture of people who are fighting, clawing, barking, posting to be noticed, because they long to be known.
This is what Christ wants to do with us. If I’m known, and I know Him and He knows me, then of course I’ll be of use, because I’m going to be walking in intimacy with Him and He’s going to pour Himself through me in whatever way He wants to.
Gina:
And that’s where transformation happens. I think that’s the other trap we fall into as believers is we try to go behavior first, relationship after, it’s a works based thing. So, if I do good enough. It’s like the Prodigal son wanting to wash dishes. But if we are willing to accept the invitation to come close and know Him, and be dependent on Him, and receive from Him, then all of those things are going to fall into place. And you know, that’s the grand lie.
We talk about how we don’t want to be deceived, so we look for the devil in the corners and all the evil that he’s going to do, and we point fingers at each other, all the while we’re just getting lulled into this works based religious system, that removes relationship altogether. It’s so sad.
Zach:
That’s anti-Christ. We’re looking for this antichrist to rise up. We’re looking for this beast that has too many horns sticking out of his head or something. And we read the book of Revelation, expecting this one world government, and eschatology is fine, I want Jesus to come back too, but my point is you don’t have to look for it far to find anti-Christ, you just look in our own religion.
The antichrist is what you’re talking about right now. It says that I have to figure out how to get enough brownie points to get into His good graces, you know? And if I just work hard enough, then He is going to like me.
Gina:
Yeah, that’s so good. Thank you for this conversation for being here for taking the time. Thank you for not settling, for digging deep, for looking for the uncomfortable things, for being willing to hear the hard things, and then for your obedience to speak them when He says to speak. God bless you and your ministry and the things that God has in front of you and in all that you’re doing, your family and everything. Thanks for being here, I appreciate it.
Zach:
And may God bless you, in everything that you lay your hands to, and your family, and your ministry. Thank you for asking hard questions and making me answer them well!
Reflection and Prayer
Gina:
Before you go on with your day. I want to sit with a couple of things. We’re not going to sit with all of it. There’s not enough time, but I do encourage you to go back and write down the things that maybe triggered you. What is the Lord stirring in you? What convicted you? maybe offended you? What excited you? and go before Him with those things.
Listen, He’s going to talk. He’s going to reveal Himself to you and the heart of the Father. I want to focus on two things that Zach said that I think are really important for us as believers right now. The first is: Our intimacy is broken if it doesn’t have the fear of the Lord in it. Our intimacy is broken if it doesn’t have the fear of the Lord in it.
If you have affection without submission, then you’re missing something. What does it mean to have an intimate relationship with a Holy God? To have appropriate awe and fear of a God who created the universe, who knit me together, who holds the keys to sin and death? How do I have affection and submit myself in holy awe to the one who sees me and knows me.
So Father, we come before you in Jesus name. We invite You to reveal those places in our heart, where we have not brought holy reverence and awe of You. Lord, reveal those places in our heart that we are not in submission to You, where we’ve forgotten to have holy fear to fall before you, humbled by your majesty, overwhelmed by your grace.
Purify us, cleanse us a-fresh, fill us a-fresh with Your Spirit. Give us eyes to see You on the throne, and your glory filling the temple. Let our gospel not be powerless. Let our worship not be impotent father. We want to stand fully and completely in our identity. Trusting you, glorifying You, in surrender to You. Transform us. We ask in Jesus’ name. Amen.
Ali Ash is a leader, mentor and life-coach on staff at New Community Church in Vista, CA.
Check the rest of this conversation How to Worship a King, The Beckoning of Christ
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