Are you navigating health and hardships in marriage? In this, part 2 of Gina’s conversation with Norm about Partnership in marriage, Gina and Norm talk about what it means to trust God as a couple. Learning how to live a life of dependance on God, together. They touch on everything from family of origin and identity to provision and seeing God’s faithfulness.
Click below to listen starting at 13:52 to follow along.
Navigating the Desert to the Promised Land
Gina:
It’s interesting, because we’ve been in a season recently of a lot of hard stuff. With my dad, your daughter, Jackie, finances. There’s a lot of big things that we’ve been juggling. And we’ve been in the most dependent season, we’ve ever been in almost 28 years we’ve been married. And the Lord’s been really providing miraculously. Even in the hardest things, but sometimes we get so set on looking ahead, trying to find when this is gonna be over, we miss the provision that’s right in front of us.
And I was just pondering and praying through provision a couple weeks ago. I want the promise land and we’re kind of looking over everybody’s head and pointing, “I want that, I want the abundant provision over there. I want the promise land.” And yes, the provision in the promise land is abundant. It’s the land flowing with milk and honey. We all want that. But there is provision in the desert. It’s just exactly what you need, when you need it and no more.
Norm:
And by the way, that provision isn’t just monetary.
Gina:
It’s hope. It’s community. It’s relationships. It’s all of those things. And in the desert, it was mana. It was their shoes and their clothes not wearing out. It was a pillar of fire by night and a pillar of smoke by day. It was water coming out of a rock after it’s been struck. It was also where the miraculous was. There were more miracles in the desert because only miracles were going to bring that kind of provision.
So there’s something about that surrender and that resting exactly where you are with God. Allowing yourself to see and receive how present He is right here, right now and not missing it, because I’m so concerned with when I’m gonna get out of it. And that’s something that He has been demonstrating in spades. And the other thing that has been so powerful to watch too, is that His provision goes out ahead of us. That even before we get there, He’s already gone before us. And so we’ve had situations recently with little things and with big things that He knew. It’s profound.
And when you can do that, when you can be in a marriage partnership, the two of you can hold hands and see that and celebrate that together and cry together. This sucks, but we’re here with each other or whatever the case may be. There’s something profound. Marriage is a powerful, miraculous partnership when partnered with each other and with Jesus. It’s such a demonstration of the Kingdom, when, when we’re willing.
Norm:
I think that nothing that you just described is easy or really comes natural to human beings. It’s a faith walk. In a very concrete sense, if that makes any sense. If there’s anything that we’ve learned is that God meets you there. And when you start seeing His track record behind you, it bolsters your ability to take that next step.
Gina:
That’s why He kept telling Israel to build altars of remembrance. In Psalm 37: “Dwell in the land and feed on His faithfulness”. If we can stop ourselves when we’re in that place of looking at uncertainty or looking at something that feels hopeless, if we can stop and take a moment with our spouse go, “Let’s just recount for a minute what God’s done.” And it shifts our perspective and it realigns us.
Norm:
In terms of that partnership, we don’t both need to be completely in a great place. There are many times, one of us is lacking hope and the other of us is like, “No, no, no.” And we have each other’s backs. That is a huge gift by God’s design.
The Importance of Verbal Communication in Marriage
Gina:
When you are in a place where you don’t have faith, then I can be in a place where I have faith for both of us or vice versa. It’s interesting, I feel like oftentimes women greatly underestimate the influence they have in a marriage and the power of what they do or don’t do what they say or don’t say, and the effect that has on their husband.
You can’t speak for all men, but I think there is a little bit of generalization. What is it that I have done or can do that provides you with that confidence and trust and assurance and the foundation, so that you can go be what God created you to be and do what God created you to do?
Norm:
I think the biggest thing is your encouragement and belief-slash support of me, and your confidence that I’m doing the right thing. I’ve got my hand at the right plow and that I’m doing it well. I think that it’s difficult to quantify how much that helps me to do what I do. If I’m out on the road and I’m thinking that you’re thinking, “Norm’s gone again, leaving me here for what? Well he likes to play music.” And you know that you regularly tell me that this is significant, there’s eternal significance to what I’m doing and the ministry aspect of what I’m doing. I think that that is probably the most important thing.
Gina:
You don’t just know that, I actually tell you. Because it’s easy to underestimate how much verbal affirmation and encouragement “I’m proud of you and I’m thankful for you. You’re doing amazing.” I have a handful of people that I pour into right now. One of them is a woman, and she was talking a bit about that and how she was recognizing. She’s in ministry. So she spends all day encouraging people and pouring into people.
And her husband finally came to her and said, I feel like you do that for everybody, but I don’t really get as much of that. And it was such a wake up call for her. She’s going, “Of course, but I guess I kind of don’t think I need to tell you.” Especially in ministry, it’s easy to give all your best, pour it out to everybody else. Then when you get home, you kind of forget, but in the same way that people that you’re ministering to, your family needs that affirmation, encouragement.
They need to know that you’re their biggest cheerleader. And the same goes for me when you listen to something or whether it’s a podcast or a class or whatever, and you say, “Honey, I’m proud of you.” The wind that that puts in my sails, and the confidence that that builds, is enormous. There’s very few other people, if any, that can do that. You can, because you’re my husband, you’re my partner. That’s a super powerful thing that people shouldn’t underestimate.
Norm:
That’s enormous. That goes way beyond the scope of even what we’re talking about today. If you want to have a happy marriage, you have to do that for each other period.
Gina:
Not just career or ministry wise, you as a father. I’m constantly telling you, you’re an amazing dad. You are an amazing dad. And sometimes it’s the most important to say that when they’re not feeling it. When you’re struggling, when parenting is hard and you’re not sure what’s going on and go, “Honey, you’re an amazing dad. The girls would be completely lost without you. Who you are, exactly who you are. You’re imperfect, but we both are.” But just that constant affirmation is a big deal.
Norm:
This may be a weird thing to say. I think it’s really important to develop in your marriage, the ability to lovingly speak to the truth as well. I’m not at all implying that encouragement isn’t the truth, because we both mean that when we say that. But, at the same time, when we’re talking about something and I ask you for your opinion, there have been many times that you’ve said, “I get what you’re trying to do. I’m not feeling that. But, what do you think about this?”
I think that is something that allows us to have trust. Because now I know that if it was terrible, you would say so. It’s not hollow. I believe you when you tell me something. And I think the critical thing there is being able to say it in love. Instead of, “Oh, you’re serious?” But in love you can say, “I don’t think that’s as cool as some of the other stuff you’ve done.” Or “I’m not quite following what you’re saying there.” That allows you to be a sounding board that can be trusted.
Investing in Health before Marriage
Gina:
I want to encourage young men and women, before they even consider stepping into a marital relationship. Do the work. Invest in your spiritual health, invest in your emotional health. Make sure that you start growing as a healthy person, someone who has a healthy, intimate relationship with Jesus, someone who has a healthy relationship with other people. So that you can step into a healthy relationship with your spouse.
So that you’re not, either the husband or the wife, letting your insecurities create this moment where you abdicate to the other person. Then put all of that inordinate pressure and weight on just one person’s shoulders. Because that just is a recipe for disaster. It breeds bitterness, it breeds resentment. It breeds jealousy.
Norm:
That’s the best marriage advice in this whole program.
Gina:
It’s gonna benefit, not just your marriage, it’s gonna benefit you as a parent. It’s gonna benefit you in your relationship with others. If you can get to that place, you’re gonna be quick to ask for forgiveness, to check yourself, to know when you’ve been out of line. Not just ask forgiveness from your spouse, but also your kids. It grows you to be able to be the same person behind closed doors as you are in front of people. Huge for people in ministry. It’s a big deal. It’s critical.
Norm:
I would just say that marriage can be difficult, but it’s worth the investment, the regular ongoing investment of time and energy. If you’re married, you’re nodding your head. You have to attend to your marriage and invest in it. It’s not a one time thing, but I think that it’s also a place that you can thrive. You don’t hear of that as much.
We’re 28 years in, and despite the various challenges, we have experienced significant challenges and there have been some tough times, yet in the midst of that, we’re thriving. Because we are on the same page and we’re there for each other and we are championing each other. For anybody that’s listening, there’s nothing particular about us that allows us to thrive in marriage any more than the next person.
Other than regularly putting each other first and pursuing God individually and together, with intentionality. Making it a priority. I can’t imagine doing what I do without having you in my corner. And as you’re forging this new path that you’re on, I am absolutely invested in that as well. We’re in this together. Don’t settle for just getting by. Your marriage can thrive, especially with this area that we’ve been talking about today, with calling and where that could be an area of central conflict. It doesn’t have to be.
Gina:
Well, world famous Norm. Thanks for being here.
Norm:
I had a blast. Thank you for having me.
Check the rest of this conversation Health and Hardship in Marriage
Check out the Dwell Meditations
