In the 3rd part of the conversation “When Church Hurts”, Gina and Loisa explore the necessity of forgiveness on the road to healing.
Click below to listen starting at 31:45 to follow along.
Gina:
I remember when you first started coming to Gateway, because we would talk on the phone periodically. I think the reason why it’s one of the healthiest places, or probably the healthiest place you’ve been, is because even to consider serving, you needed to go through a process. A lot of churches have a membership process or a discipleship process when you become a part of the church, where you learn the basics of faith.
And Gateway had a whole part of that process, where you reconcile any baggage that you had from old churches. And I remember thinking, “Oh my gosh, this is amazing.” Because they required you to examine yourself and go, “How did you leave the last place?”
Loisa:
And they required us to go back to it, at least in communication, to make sure we left well. That was huge, and that was so healing. I don’t know that I would’ve done that, had I not been prompted. That was hugely healing.
Gina:
You wrote some letters and stuff. Then I remember you flying out for a visit, and then you walked into one of those places where there was so much pain. I remember sitting next to you during worship, and you just wept through all of worship, and it was because you were like, “I’m free of this. I’m okay. I’ve released this person, and this place, and I’m actually free of this.” I just have so much respect for the leadership recognizing how significant that is.
Loisa:
It was crucial.
Building the Future on Solid Ground Rather than Bitterness
Gina:
That had really set you up to be able to build the future ministry that God had for you on solid ground, rather than the pile of your trauma and your offense. A lot of people do that; they shake the dust off of a place and they don’t deal with it and they avoid it.
Loisa:
And there are places that you can’t go back to. I was very blessed that I could go and find a redemption point in those places. I just want to acknowledge that there are some places you really truly shake the dust off your feet and you don’t go back. But you can in your heart, you can release those things, even if you can’t through communication.
Gina:
It’s about the condition of your heart. It’s about surrendering. It’s about repentance. It’s about forgiveness. It’s about letting go of offense. It’s about letting go of control. It’s about all those things.
Loisa:
The whole package of what we’re talking about, is coming to a place of allowing humans to be humans, and remembering that you’re on a journey, and you’re working out your faith and fear and trembling. It’s so easy to assume that because so-and-so is in a leadership position, or led this small group, or sings this song, that they’re at the end of their journey and then they’ve arrived there.
We assume everything they do really ought to reflect God and be perfect, but they’re on a journey too. We need to realize, that not only does God love us in that, and love them, whoever them is, but that He uses it if we let Him. That was part of coming here.
I did not want to come to this place because it looked like the old places where they had the big screen. Somehow for some reason, to me, that big screen was the problem. People got too big on that camera, and I didn’t want to be on that screen, and I didn’t want anybody else being on that screen either. It looked too, too similar, so I didn’t want to be here.
The Call to Return
The Lord tricked me into coming here actually, because I had been talking about Him to a friend at work and she was like, “I want to go to church with you.” And I was like, “Oh yeah. Uh, where do you want to go?” And she said, “How about that Gateway place?” And I’m like, in my head, “That’s the one place I’m not going.” And I thought, “Well, I can’t say that, that’s not going to be a great testimony moment.” So I said, “Uh, okay. Okay. Gateway. Yeah, let’s go there.” And she didn’t end up showing up.
I’m sitting there in the service and I am so uncomfortable because everything inside of me wants to jump for joy. Zach Neese was leading worship, and I didn’t know him then, but I obviously know him now. And I’m sitting there and my heart and my spirit were like, “We can go here. We can go to this place that they’re going, let’s go!” And then I’m also thinking, “No, this is not it. I can’t.”
I grabbed the seat underneath me, and I’m white knuckling it, like, “I will not engage in this moment.” And then so quickly going, “Oh Lord, I am so sorry. What have I done? What have I done that I would scorn this expression, and not want to engage in it, and not want to be swept away in it, that I would doubt it and question it and be more comfortable pulling away than diving in. So, how did I get here?” It was a “How did I get here” moment, and I just let myself go, and I’ve been here ever since.
I remember soon after I came on a day that there was no service. I just wanted to be in the building and pray and they didn’t have a prayer room, so I went into the nursing mother’s room, and I don’t even think you’re supposed to be in there at all. The building was empty except for facilities, and I just went to pray and just ask the Lord, “Is this really it? Is this where? Because I’m so scared. I’m so scared.” And He said, “Don’t be scared, just come be with Me.”
We make it so hard sometimes in our desire for everything to be what it’s supposed to be. There’s so much freedom, and there’s so much release, in realizing it’s not going to be on this side of earth. That’s a hard thing for someone with a heightened sense of justice and a heightened compassion and empathy. It’s a hard thing to really be okay with saying, “They’re going to get it wrong, I’m going to get it wrong, and God’s still going to use it, and He’s still going to use me.”
It doesn’t mean I endorse that. It doesn’t mean I’m okay with it. It doesn’t mean that I want the view of Christianity today in the world put on me. I almost hate that label because of what it means now. It doesn’t mean I’m okay with all that. But it means that I recognize that God is sovereign, not in that He controls humans like robots; which means they’re going to keep hurting each other, but in that He will use it.
He will bring it around, and He does every time. He’s the Redeemer. That is what He does. He wouldn’t need to redeem if He controlled. He has to let us make those calls. And I don’t think He likes them a lot of the time, but He’ll use what we give Him and what we let Him use.
It’s also a relief when you can get to that place. That’s where I am now, and it’s still a journey. I still get to where I want to say, “Come on! Come on people. Can you just love? Can you just be like Jesus for a minute and let that be what is seen?” And what’s hard is that is happening all over the place. The enemy doesn’t let it be seen a lot of the time, but it’s happening all over the place.
People are also being awesome a lot, in the name of Jesus, because they’re obedient to who God asked them to be.
Gina:
I love that. I love testimonies, because you can’t argue with a testimony. It’s just such a beautiful demonstration about God’s love, like His intimate, gentle, pursuing, love, His patience, and Him meeting you in Einstein’s theory of relativity. You know what I mean? He knows you.
He knit you together. He knows He made you. He knows what triggers you. He knows what entices you. He knows what delights you, He knows what scares you. He’s going to meet you in those places.
Check out Gateway Church
Check the rest of this conversation God Gets Personal, Is God Good in Our Suffering?, When Church Hurts
Check out the Dwell Meditations
